One Church’s View on Prop 8
2008 November 24
What do you think of this? A church in San Diego put up a billboard apologizing for the passing of Prop 8 in California.
It reads:
Mission Gathering Christian Church
Is Sorry
For The Narrow-Minded, Judgmental, Deceptive, Manipulative
Actions Of Those Who
Took Away The Rights And Equality
Of So Many
In The Name Of God.
You can read more about it here.
I guess my main thought is cynical. Why would I apologize for someone else’s action? It looks a whole lot like patting yourself on the back while stabbing a knife in the back of your brothers and sisters in Christ.
It seems as though the billboard itself is narrow minded, judgmental and above all manipulative (meaning the church is trying to manipulate public opinion and generate positive feelings for their particular church – not for Christ).
The billboard totally discounts the opinion of those who love homosexuals, want homosexuals to find (if they haven’t already) and follow Christ, and draw a distinction between equal rights and special rights. There can be disagreement without rancor. Unfortunately, this church – in trying to stop the attacks – launched one at other churches and believers.
This kind of generalization is wrong. To condemn the motives of those with whom you have a disagreement is not the way Christ would have his church behave.
This is pretty interesting. I don’t know what this church that put up the billboard actually does with gay folks when they walk in the door. But this billboard does point out the broad and faithful differences in how Christians today are reacting to folks who identify as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, and queer.
Truth is, Christians have a lot they need to apologize for in this regard. During the Prop 8 campaign, Christians did act in the ways mentioned in this billboard. I guess this church is trying to say to their town that they’ll apologize for the part of the Christian family that is acting mean, and pointing out that that they aren’t like them.
It’s hard to be a Christian community that reads the bible through the large lens of justice and love, instead of just literalism. But the truth is, that plenty of loving, faithful, scholarly, and deeply committed Christians do. And when you step into the world to love and do justice and walk humbly with God after reading the scripture in this way, sometimes the biggest barrier to the world hearing the good news, is other Christians. I guess this church just did what it felt it needed to do to spread the gospel.
csbradsen:
Your response was thoughtful and graceful. The billboard was not.
I think that their own statement reveals the sort of prideful arrogance that does indeed need to be eradicated from the church. Our church has apologized to the homosexual community for the way in which some of them have been treated in the past. It has built a barrier… and I am genuinely saddened by that because (like many Christians) I have friends who struggle with their sexual identity. Our church has apologized; but, we didn’t apologize for people just because they disagreed with a certain point of view.
The fact is that there are people who love homosexuals who don’t believe that there is a Constitutional right to same-sex marriage. That isn’t mean. It just is.
Thank you for the spirit with which you addressed this. I am with you (more than you know) on the mean Christians thing. I just think this was a misguided attempt.
Lance Burch:
I am the Creative Arts Pastor at Missiongathering… and have been reading these posts.
I encourage you to read our statement about WHY we did what we did. You can find it here: ourheartsarewithyou.wordpress.com.
On top of all of that, I think your theology on Jesus might be worth re-examining. When Jesus dealt with issues of social justice (i.e. the temple, the condemned woman, etc.) he did so with boldness and justice… telling the truth about what happened and even calling out the religious leaders of the day.
I really encourage you to read our statement before passing judgment on us with words like “wrong” and “misguided.” I hope that we, as Christians, will always be bold in standing up for social justice in the name of Christ. Especially when the injustice was done IN THE NAME of God.
grace,
Jay
Jay,
I have read it. This reading has not changed my conclusions. Conclusions with which you do not agree.
What did I type in my first two postings that was a dead give-a-way that I hadn’t read your blog posting? I am curious because, after having read it, I wouldn’t change a word of the above two posts.
I still believe that the billboard reflects the same kind of arrogance that many in the fluid, evolving church decry in other churches. I may be wrong.
My theology of Jesus always needs re-examining… as does yours. Anyone who suggests that of someone after reading a couple of posts is either really concerned about my theology (I trust this is true) or is trying a dig at someone who they have pigeon-holed as a no-grace literalist.
Let me take both of your examples:
1. The temple… Jesus speaks directly to the church. He doesn’t build a billboard outside the Temple to apologize to the Roman centurions who may or may not be offended by the goings on of the temple money-changers.
2. The condemned woman… Jesus tells her that he doesn’t condemn her.
My theology of Jesus affirms both of those beautiful narratives dealing with Jesus’ passion for the church and the lost.
To state that the “action” of voting for Prop 8 is narrow-minded and judgmental is in itself narrow-minded and judgmental. We don’t change the church by behaving in the way that we find objectionable.
I still believe that it is a misguided attempt. I applaud any attempt at showing the love and grace of God to a community whom love. I just cannot bring myself to applaud a swipe at everyone who voted for Prop 8.
*whom I love.
Great post Josh,
This is something I have been struggling with. I admit, I voted yes for prop 102 here in Arizona, but struggle very much with my choice to do so.
Was voting yes “unloving”? I don’t think so, but can not say for certain. As someone who has gay friends, I believe they would expect me to vote my morals as I have on other issues. However, this does not negate the fact that I wouldn’t want people voting to define marriage as a union between only same-sex peoples.
Did I do unto others as I would want them to do to me?
As for the billboard, I think the idea is appropriate, however the use of the words, “Narrow-Minded, Judgmental, Deceptive and Manipulative” maybe not so much.
Question:
Does having legal gay marriage hurt anyone outside of those directly involved?
Does gay marriage help those involved by promoting monogamous relationships?
jay,
are you ever coming back
Lance said: “To state that the “action” of voting for Prop 8 is narrow-minded and judgmental is in itself narrow-minded and judgmental. We don’t change the church by behaving in the way that we find objectionable.”
So you change the church by being subservient to it and doing what it says? What part of American history dont you understand?
Nombre,
Happy Thanksgiving!
You change the church by telling a different story. Not a rewind and amplification of the same story that you hate.
I am confused by your tone. I certainly don’t intend to be a know it all and would rather just talk. Is that ok?
I don’t think mission gathering understands the nature of forgiveness. Is it possible to ask for forgiveness on behalf of another group who is in fact not sorry for their actions?
I am a gay Christian and opposed proposition 8.
The billboard is highly presumptuous at best and bad theology at worst.
Im back!
Lance. I hear what you are saying, and can understand where you are coming from. I can honestly say that we are not coming from a place of arrogance or manipulation, but instead from a place of hoping to enact change.
I got to hang out with a really cool pastor at a church in North Carolina a couple of weeks ago whose church took a stand on the issue of homosexuality and was subsequently voted out of the Southern Baptist Convention. Google their story, b/c its really interesting (Myers Park Baptist).
As we sat and chatted, he said something that I truly believe. “When you take a controversial stand for something, you must do so under spectacle… only then will seeds of change begin to take root.”
We can all agree that the church needs change. You are right, billboards are not the only avenue toward that change, but it is part of it. I think our energy is better spent finding avenues that we all can take rather than critiquing and judging the avenues others have chosen to walk down.
In grace,
Jay
Luke,
You said: I don’t think mission gathering understands the nature of forgiveness. Is it possible to ask for forgiveness on behalf of another group who is in fact not sorry for their actions?
I don’t believe that mission gathering is asking for forgiveness. I don’t believe that to be sorry for something necessarily means that you are asking for forgiveness. I do believe that mission gathering church is trying to express their love and compassion for those that feel they have been deemed unequal to the rest of society.
This ad does not attack all Christians. Some Christians and other members of faith were against Prop 8. It does address those who voted Yes and are Christians. Obviously this church doesn’t agree with those Christians (nor do I). Some of us believe that Christians who voted yes made a morally wrong vote. Jesus didn’t exclude people from his kingdom – even gays. Yet those Christians send the opposite message that gays are wicked people, their relationships are meaningless, and that if they want salvation they must deny their homosexual desires in order to be saved. If gays were ok, they would have been given the same rights. But they are not (according to those who chose to vote yes). And they wonder why so many gays and lesbians are disenfranchised with religion?!?! This church is apologizing for that message and reinforcing the message that the Christ they worship does not cast anyone out of his kingdom – including gays and lesbians. The language may have been offensive to some. But it relates to the anger, abandonment, alienation, and loss of the GLBT community. Sugar coating this message would not have got that point across – that God still loves them. This is not “tooting their own horn”. If anything, it worked for me. I came back to church (well, a new one) after staying away for over ten years. My former faith, Catholicism, had cast me out. And now, I am Christian once again and it is helpful for me to forgive the people who demonize me and find God again. I will always be a bit angry, can you blame me, but I will strive to forgive others who chose to discriminate against me. The message of Christ has helped me do just that – I am still friends with coworkers I know voted yes against me though they regard me as a friend. It helps me be forgiving of those who secretly fear me for no good reason.
RE: Lance Burch Said on November 25, 2008 at 8:30 am:
“The billboard totally discounts the opinion of those who love homosexuals, want homosexuals to find (if they haven’t already) and follow Christ, and draw a distinction between equal rights and special rights.”
OH YEAH, “special rights” = you mean like not having to pay taxes? Kinda like your church? Yes, THAT is a special right.
Gays DO pay taxes and should enjoy the same right (or privilege) to marry the person they love that everyone else enjoys. This is not a special right – it is a HUMAN right and is part of that “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” jazz that this country was (supposedly) founded upon..
And BTW your wish that homosexuals find Christ doesn’t give you the right to legislate and impose your bronze age morality and religion on the population.